From Gym Bro to Mushroom Man: A Journey of Addiction and Transformation

Transcript

Jason Najum 01:15 Mr. Fungitarian, welcome to the Human Journeys Podcast.

Mr. Fungitarian 01:16 Jason. Pleasure to be here, my friend. Thank you.

Jason Najum 01:21 Nice to connect, nice to connect, nice to see your passion about the subject. And thank you for sharing your story. Yeah. So yeah. No, I just wanted I just wanted to say welcome. And it's it's the Human Journeys podcast. You ha you you have a story to share. How would you summarize your your human journey?

Mr. Fungitarian 01:26 Yeah, absolutely. It's yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 01:36 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So eight years ago, I went from a successful personal trainer and nutritionist, gym owner, into an opiate addict, which then I used psilocybin mushrooms one night and woke up the next day sober. And I sold my entire business, self-taught myself mycology, opened up the largest gourmet mushroom in Chicago, growing about 30,000 pounds a month and Now I'm on track to bring psychedelic medicine into Illinois for legal use.

Jason Najum 02:10 Mm. That's a that's a human journey.

Mr. Fungitarian 02:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Najum 02:15 So from from Gym Bro to Mushroom Man.

Mr. Fungitarian 02:18 Some gym bro to mushroom, man. Yeah, man. I was a bodybuilder as well. I coached athletes. I was a sponsored athlete. I used to go to the Arnold Olympia, you know, work all the supplement companies. so I've been in deep into the health field for, you know, two decades. but during this process, I ended up tearing my L4, L5, like slightly, not full. And instead of yeah. Yeah, it's in your back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. It's in in like the lower part of your back. And I had a slight tear. And instead of, you know, rehabinate or healing or anything, I got prescribed opiates. And so an opiate is essentially like a narcotic that helps numb your pain.

Jason Najum 02:50 That's a that's a muscle for the for the layman. Okay.

Mr. Fungitarian 03:12 And for me, my body chemistry is different. And so the Norcos don't put me to sleep. They kind of give me energy. And so I was able to take them and continue to function. Whereas most people just kind of like go to sleep on them. and so that allowed me to continue training, but then I got used to that. And then so my prescription then led to figuring out how to get more. And it went from five a day to ten a day to fifteen a day to twenty a day. for about Two and a half years. And I was in the absolute best shape of my life. It was the best I ever looked and the worst I ever felt. And I was basically taking and numbing with Adderall, pre workout, Norcos, ca other caffeine, weed, somas, all in a day. You know, it was it was upper.

Jason Najum 04:08 Uppers and downers and everything.

Mr. Fungitarian 04:10 Uppers and downers as a Molotov cocktail, you know?

Jason Najum 04:14 And this was during I mean, the kind of the explosion of the opioid I g packet issue in the States.

Mr. Fungitarian 04:22 Yeah. When yeah, so I would say around I mean this was from twenty sixteen till January January ninth, twenty eighteen.

Jason Najum 04:33 Mm-hmm. So yeah, I mean, thank I mean, thankfully you got yourself out of it and that's part that's part of your human journey. I mean, a lot of people in the US didn't and you know, you're you were right in the middle of the opioid epidemic and you found your way out. so okay, so opioid addiction, would you would you call it that?

Mr. Fungitarian 04:55 completely. Yeah. it was more so it got to the point that I couldn't stop because I thought I wouldn't be able to perform. And the less I had, the harder it got. And opiates you can't die from withdrawal. It just feels like a death sentence.

Jason Najum 04:57 Mm.

Mr. Fungitarian 05:20 So the only two things you can die from withdrawal is benzos and alcohol. Opiates you cannot, but it is yeah, it feels like a death sentence. And so during this process, I was also married, had two dogs, and was taking care of my entire family, who has all passed away now. And so I was in the process of dealing with burying my grandfather, which then spiraled my opiate addiction even further. And that grief led in to more numbing. And luckily by the grace of The grace of, you know, some close people around me that were starting to notice and see. 'cause even my wife didn't even notice. You know, she didn't even know. It was wild. You know, I was just masking everything and covering it up and, you know, throwing it in the supplement pile of other things that I'm taking and, you know, trying to be this example that was just bullshit. And

Jason Najum 06:15 Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 06:32 My mother got very sick and then was basically getting ready to pass away at the beginning of January. and my mom then passed away on my wife's birthday on January fourth, twenty eighteen. And that moment I was I just had a realization that, you know, I only had my grandmother left and I knew that if I wasn't gonna get my shit together and get clean, I was gonna be the next one to die. And so I started stumbling upon anything I could. And I tried getting off using Suboxone before this. I tried getting off using Kratom. I ended up getting addicted to Kratom. Suboxone is like what the government gives you. It's like fancy methadone. And so basically it's like giving you the opiate without having to take it. And That didn't work, ended up just getting addicted to the Suboxone or the Kratom. And so I'm this happens. I'm in my mom passes away. I'm in this state of sorrow and

Jason Najum 07:33 Okay, yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 07:42 And I stumble upon an article that the fo I was like, you know, alcohol recovery, whatever. I don't know what I was Googling. And I found an article about the founder of AA, founding AA and all its principles using psychedelic trip. some say psilocybin, some say acid. But I y yeah, right. And so yeah, I I heard that was the twelfth step of AA. And

Jason Najum 08:10 Yeah. I think Acid is the is the urban legend, but yeah.

Jason Najum 08:13 Right.

Mr. Fungitarian 08:15 So I was like, Well, wait a second, if psychedelics can cure alcoholism, why couldn't they cure opiate addiction? You know, I I don't know why. I was just like that they sh

Jason Najum 08:25 I mean at this point you were you were looking for answers.

Mr. Fungitarian 08:29 Mm-hmm. I was looking for answers, but Jason, the crazier part about all of this is that my pseudo uncle Marky, I'm half Italian, so in Chicago you have like a lot of like family uncles, you know? And so he came over to my house like six months before that and was like, Johnny, I got a whole bag of mushrooms. I grew up, I don't know what to do with them. Just like hang on to them. Like, I'm like, bro, I don't want this crazy shit. Like, what the fuck? Like, as I would be, you know,

Jason Najum 08:56 Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 08:56 Drinking or doing blow before, that's no problem. But mushrooms, that's fucking crazy. God, Uncle Mark, you're kidding me? I got things to do. So so Uncle Marky leaves this big bag at my house. And I read this article and I was like, Holy fuck, I have I have a whole huge bag of mushrooms in my closet. So I just went to the closet, man, grabbed a whole handful and decided, let's go.

Jason Najum 09:23 Yeah, but not not these mushrooms. Yeah, exactly. What do you g markie, you fucking crazy? All right.

Mr. Fungitarian 09:26 And I don't even know how much I took, maybe six grams, maybe seven, I don't know, a handful. And took them to the dome. And basically from that, it was about midnight. And that moment on, I had my first psychedelic experience. I've been using cannabis before that, but my first real psychedelic experience. And during this time, I had a come to God moment and God came down and said, I'll save your life if you save the world with mushrooms. And the next day I woke up sober.

Jason Najum 09:55 Hmm. That's okay. There's a lot there. There's a lot to un there's a lot to unpack. okay, that's the that's the big picture. let's rewind, like let's rewind a bit. So addiction, there's like there's chemical addiction that was, you know, affecting hundreds of thousands of people across your country. And

Mr. Fungitarian 09:58 Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 10:04 Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 10:07 Mm-hmm.

Jason Najum 10:17 You you found you found yourself in the middle of that. And then the these kind of personal compounding stories, you were losing family members, and then like maybe let's like take a moment to like put ourselves like where you like where you were there, why you felt the need to find a solution to reach elsewhere. I mean, eventually it's great that you found those mushrooms, but like where you mean you were able to cover it well, you're high functioning and high performing and high masking. You were we know we were you you were you were masking at all and you were doing a good job of getting through the day. but you felt in you felt this internal need to you like you knew you had to do something about it.

Mr. Fungitarian 10:58 Yeah, I just I just knew that this wasn't the definition of health. I I I just knew that this isn't there's just no way that me having to take these things all the time at like this just this just couldn't be health. And I was just at that point though where that was the entire culture of bodybuilding. That was that time frame when everybody was trying to get swole and jacked and take. pre workout and all this different shit. And you know, I was really good at it. You know, and I could hang and live with the best of But

Jason Najum 11:36 Yeah. And yeah, you were getting you you were successful, you were getting validation, you were all all those things. So was there how is it affecting your daily life? I mean if you if you're saying your wife didn't notice, I mean, how is it affect I mean you you knew, but

Mr. Fungitarian 11:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, it was affecting my day because my week basically rolled around when I could make sure I had my supply. So I was also an opiate addict that had like constant money coming in because of training and clients. And so there was always cash and there was always you know, money available to be able to buy stuff. But you know, when you have a prescription and then you're buying your buddy's prescription and then you have Two more guys, but then it's not always easy to get. You know, you're kinda just basing how much you can eat and how many you can take and when will you get the next refill? It was like literally like an entire other game besides working all day. You know, it's

Jason Najum 12:35 Yeah.

Jason Najum 12:39 Yeah, question a question about under the surface, like subconsciously or maybe not so subconsciously, knowing that hey, I'm addicted. And there's like is there subconscious shame behind that and you know, not being f fully forthcoming with your partner? Like what were you you know, were you aware were you aware of all that, or was it just kind of subconsciously and fucking around with you under the surface?

Mr. Fungitarian 13:01 Yeah, but

Mr. Fungitarian 13:09 You know, my grandpa always says it's the toughest being toughest thing being a conscious, intelligent person. And to be able to know you're doing the wrong thing repeatedly is a wild thing. But to know, and that's where that's why I call it the death sentence with opiates. It's because you know that you're not feeling good. You know without them you feel worse. So you make it makes you think. That you need them.

Jason Najum 13:39 And it's a each time you have you each time you reach for it, it's a it's a you're you know I don't say it's a weakness, but you know that you're reaching for it because you you think that you you can't live without it. You think that you need it. And it's like kind of these micro moments of like maybe like mini shame each time you feel like you need you can't live without it.

Mr. Fungitarian 13:59 Absolutely. You know, and because I'm also portraying health and discipline and all of these other mentalities, for me, it was I wasn't walking the walk. Yeah, you know, I had the body, I had the knowledge, I had all those things, but I was behind the scenes, it was no bueno.

Jason Najum 14:11 Imposter. Imposter. Mm-hmm.

Jason Najum 14:21 Mm. Mm-hmm. And keeping it from your partner wasn't a fun thing.

Mr. Fungitarian 14:25 Yeah. So, you know, keeping it from my my wife was, you know, I think I was just more she was just she didn't do drugs. She didn't do anything, you know. So she was that was fantastic. You know, she was very on that was one of the reasons I, you know, was with her. It was just a a noble thing to have basically a sober partner. And she just wasn't aware or around any of it. And because I would, you know, But event eventually though it got to the point where, you know, I was on ten Norcos and a soma while trying to smoke weed on the couch, you know, and it was like then I'd be all like out of it and started, you know, slip it into this and she would like let it go that I would, you know, okay, you got too high that one night or this and that. But then it started to come in on repeat. and eventually I tried to get off and just stop. And I got like t two, three days into it. and it was just terrible. And so I I just went back and I told her I went back. And so like then we were just like on that path because my mom was like slowly dying for like four to five months. And I was like, yo, I just I just can't fucking take that right now. You know, I just I need this to keep it all together, you know.

Jason Najum 15:46 Hmm. Mm. So I mean, it's I'm sorry you had to go through all that, but it did, it did bring you, it did bring you here. And then the universe. I mean, I just interviewed Edward Crowe, who's a a a musician music manager, right? Yeah. And we just did we just did a human journey. Yeah, and he's a great guy, and he also stumbled upon mushrooms. And and so you have a similar you have a similar story, the background, you know, things were things were fine, but you know,

Mr. Fungitarian 16:13 Yeah, I j I I know Edward. Yeah. Yeah, we we just talked recently. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jason Najum 16:17 And then the universe delivered you delivered him a bag of mushrooms, delivered you a bag of mushrooms. So you take it, and you had this kind of substantial moment, this this profound, this profound experience for your first time. I mean, without intention setting, it could have gone sideways, but it went, it went, it went the right way for you. Or did you sit or what or were there intentions?

Mr. Fungitarian 16:37 Yeah. that I would give my life to get rid of this sickness.

Jason Najum 16:41 You're the your y that was a that was an active statement in your mind?

Mr. Fungitarian 16:45 Like it was like I I would give anything to be clean. I was willing and ready to do or become anything I needed to do to stop. I I I I prayed for a miracle. I prayed so that I could take care of my grandmother and to be there with her, you know? That was that was really my big focus. She raised me growing up, so I was like very indebted to that. But that's what I try to convey to a lot of people is now that I'm a microdose coach and I've worked with you know 500 plus people on with psychedelics and all of this stuff now, and what I understand about it, I was in a state of readiness to change. The level of my sorrow compounded, the level of my addiction compounded, my life was just at a point of. evolution and for me I had to crumble in order to rise. But that moment, truly of you know, it was the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. The addiction, all of that shit was the greatest thing that's ever happened to me.

Jason Najum 17:57 Mm.

Jason Najum 18:04 I'm happy to hear that. I'm really I'm I'm really happy to hear that. And it completely opened up a whole new path for your like mental health, physical health, your life, your career, everything.

Mr. Fungitarian 18:16 Yeah, so the the w the wilder part is so that happened, right? And I then woke up the next day sober. And so I was like, Okay.

Mr. Fungitarian 18:25 Well

Jason Najum 18:26 It felt sober, it felt different. You felt c you felt clean.

Mr. Fungitarian 18:32 my God. So I I I tripped from like probably midnight till around five, six AM. Passed out, finally woke up, maybe around like noon. And I remember just going to the fridge and grabbing some like orange juice and like drinking. And like I was like, wait a second, like I'm not going next to my bed to get my pill bottle. I'm not like, you know, I'm not that wasn't there. The like the idea of it wasn't even there. And I was like, huh.

Jason Najum 19:03 And you hadn't felt that in years.

Mr. Fungitarian 19:05 I haven't felt that in years, two and a half years. And I was like, Okay. Huh. And like I just kinda like my wife was at work and so I was just like, Okay, there's What to do, you know? Like, all right, well, I'm gonna go to the gym, you know? Like, all right, I had a gym in my building and I was like, all cool, I'm gonna go work out. And like I you know, I was just kinda in this like dazed state. I didn't know what to do, really. but all of a sudden hours just kept going by and I didn't I just didn't want, yeah.

Jason Najum 19:34 No, it's it's sorry to interrupt, but I c I could see like, you know, the we c we talk about plasticity. Like you can remember the I I can see you remembering the feeling of that moment, that clar that moment of clarity. It's still registered, you can still feel it.

Mr. Fungitarian 19:46 Yeah. Yeah. every second, bro. You know, it's just like that that aha. It was literally at the fridge. I knew I didn't want it. You know, it just was a different feeling when I woke up that next day. It it that urge or that desire was taken. And so because of that and not knowing, I ended up doing it again and again, two nights in a row, or three nights in a row altogether.

Jason Najum 20:01 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 20:10 and

Jason Najum 20:12 Bringing bringing the addictive tendencies into into psychedelics, but yeah. Mm.

Mr. Fungitarian 20:15 Right, right to it, bro. You know, but I was like, holy shit, well, if it did this, what else can it do? And so, you know, I after I stopped that I, you know, I was in a thankful state of prayer, and I'm I'm a big God believer. And I did it again and I just asked to have anything else removed from me, anything else that doesn't serve me, anything else that isn't gonna bring my highest good. take away everything. And so I ended up stopping caffeine and I stopped vaping those two nights. And so in one week I stopped opiates, caffeine, and vaping. And I was like, well, I found the magic here. That's it. Like this is it. Cause I didn't know anything about it, bro. Like I didn't read. I didn't know that this was like a thing, like at all. I was like, I've got the answers.

Jason Najum 21:04 Mm, mm, well. I mean

Mr. Fungitarian 21:14 You know?

Jason Najum 21:15 I mean in some ways I I I think I have a more of a moderate personality than you. Like I've I've been at it for years and I haven't been able to so you you're maybe a bit more of an extreme personality and and in that ways you know, you found this thing, it worked for you, and you were able to like ex receive it wholeheartedly. yeah. I mean great.

Mr. Fungitarian 21:36 Yeah. Yeah, man. I I I embraced the shit out of it. And I basically was like, okay. I I mean I mean, look at you're inside the mushroom, you know, like it doesn't it doesn't get any any more mushroomy than this. I then started you know getting into

Jason Najum 21:52 I see that. Look at look at your look at your microphone. I see I see that you have. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Mr. Fungitarian 21:56 Taking different mushrooms and using them daily. I learned about microdosing right away. And yeah.

Jason Najum 21:58 Yeah.

Jason Najum 22:02 Right. So b before we go to that next stage, like let's let's like finish the the transition. So

Mr. Fungitarian 22:09 yeah, that so yeah, I have a story for that transition, but go ahead. Yeah.

Jason Najum 22:14 Yeah. Well, no, yeah. I mean, l keep the story. Whenever whenever you think it's relevant, you could throw it in there. so you're you're feeling this moment of clarity and you're not reaching for the thing that you've been so dependent on. did did you feel light, like levity? Like did you feel the like a burden removed? Did you feel like you could let a look yourself in the mirror a little bit better? You could

Mr. Fungitarian 22:26 Mm-hmm.

Jason Najum 22:42 you look look your partner in the eye a bit better, like, you know, all of a sudden, I mean, an addiction is removed. Like I'm I mean, how did that affect your your daily life and your spirit? I mean, it must have been a great weight lifted.

Mr. Fungitarian 22:54 It it aff I mean it affected literally f everything. My my wife was just like blown away by my new energy and excitement, but I besides that was also just so ecstatic that I was able to overcome it. I just became so fucking open and honest from the mushroom.

Jason Najum 22:58 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 23:23 I basically got the point where I was like, I can't tell a lie, you know? And so it came to that point that I just became radically honest with like all everybody in my whole entire life. It was like, hey, I was super heavily addicted. This shit was going on. I, you know, was using it for grief. And I just became real with everybody. And everybody was like, yo, dude, like, why didn't you say something? You know, like, why didn't you, you know, like, But that's just me. That's my behavior. I'm always trying to hold it all on my shoulders. And so, but I also, man, like I've I grew up religious and then got into different religions and spirituality, and I've been studying it my whole life. And that moment that that happened, it brought God back into my life so much that that was the overriding focus. A higher spirit, a deeper connection to the infinite intelligence that permeates you, me, and everything else on the planet.

Jason Najum 24:22 Mm. Mm-hmm. I mean, they say mushrooms are a heart opener. So your heart, your heart definitely got opened. And I mean, yeah, I can imagine, I mean, you're two and a half years on opiates and you're taking these huge amounts, what you're saying, 10, 15, 20 pills a day. Like the the the difference in in you and and your your I'm assuming it was night that no matter how good of a coping mechanisms you had, you're still on a heavy doses of opiates. So The difference between you and how you felt internally, you must have felt lighter and open and present, like here.

Mr. Fungitarian 24:56 I mean, I was I felt like I was basically aware for the first time. I've always been not in the system or the matrix, just from my upbringing and my raising, to always not really conform with the system or to always be aware of like the reality around me and and and life in a sense, but was just going through the motions.

Jason Najum 25:02 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 25:22 wasn't really wasn't really there present even before the opiates. It was just going through the motions, you know, and just this allowed me to be the observer having this human experience. And that changed everything for me.

Jason Najum 25:38 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's it does. I mean, presence, heart opening presence. I mean, that's what I always describe psychedelics, microdosing or macrodosing is it's reminded me how to be in the present moment rather than experiencing my life through whatever stuff is going on. So you're able to be here, be yourself, have your heart open, like I'm yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 25:57 Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 26:02 It well well it was it was so I mean honestly can I I I'll be even more real. It was no, it was like that was fucking great, but at the same time I was like, fuck. Everything I learned about bodybuilding was a lie. Everything about health is a lie. This is all bullshit. None of this is actually true. These supplements are fucking whack. Like everything I I've just been played for 10, 11 years. And so I was like, fuck. Like,

Jason Najum 26:06 Yeah. Please.

Mr. Fungitarian 26:32 I this happened and this was like three months later. And I was still training clients. I'm, you know, giving people microdoses to help them with things, but I'm still not full force on to this like mushroom mission, you know. I was like, I fucking love training people. I love, I love what I do. I had a great career, everything was good. I was making really good money. I was like, You know, why would I throw this away? I love I love coaching people. I love tra giving people the gift of health. There's nothing better to change somebody's life like that. And I was in the gym, this is like three months into it, and I'm going to do a one-arm tire flip and showing how client how to do it. And my arm extends out straight and my bicep rips and rolls up into my chest. And yeah. And so because I'm on mushrooms at this time.

Jason Najum 27:26 Nice.

Mr. Fungitarian 27:32 You know, they're like, no surgery, no metal, no nothing in you. And I was like, the fuck? All right. So I go to the doctor, you know, realized the low head of my bicep got ripped off. It's up in my chest. There's nothing they can do. They said they could put a pin in there and attach it, but it'll always be sensitive. And there could always be something. So I said, you know what? Forget it. I'm gonna naturally heal myself. And I'm gonna get my bicep to pull back down and do what I gotta do. and so a week later, I was doing a hundred pushups in a row in a different position. Because just because you lose one head of your bicep doesn't mean you lose all your strength. And so I I learned that I could manipulate my body in ways to

Jason Najum 28:18 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 28:26 wire and fire because I made such a deep mind muscle connection at that point. I could then trigger every other muscle in my body to activate to compensate for the lack of no bicep.

Jason Najum 28:37 All right. So yeah, I mean they they say they say mushrooms and psychedels can give you some focus when when people are training. I've heard athletes speak, so you think you got some some super power level focus with your with your training regimen there?

Mr. Fungitarian 28:53 Well, I really so so once this happened, right when I got the mushrooms during that three month period, I ended up getting like an entire download about fitness and form and technique and how to properly train in a way. And I started, you know, doing one set of 50 reps. And I would do that on each body part, doing different isometric holds, going back and forth, body weights. And so really understood like how to take the body to a a new level and the mushrooms really helped me see and define what real health was and what real movement meant and how to be functionally strong. And so when I realized that you know even the machines at the gym aren't you know designed to human nature, like even a bench press isn't right. most of these things are off

Jason Najum 29:41 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 29:46 to human nature on how we would do things. Like even an example is like a pushup. Everybody goes out here. But if you were to push somebody away, are you gonna go out wide with your hands and push them away? No, you're not. You're gonna come right from here and you're gonna push them away like that. And so it's like

Jason Najum 29:57 Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Najum 30:03 Yeah. So you're seeing you're seeing you're seeing the matrix code and everything. You're like everything's everything's everything's everything's off. Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 30:09 It in everything, bro. I everything is off. And that was the point is to denature us this entire time and get us away from the universal principles that are even encoded into our body. Because I believe that we well, I don't believe, I know that from retraining and learning how to move through space efficiently, and having set columns. where your body then stacks on top of each other and your back chain dominant and your weight is distributed on the outsides of your feet, you can be more in alignment with how the body is supposed to move, which then has less stuck energy patterns or circles within the body because you're actually creating a flow system rather than a stuck system.

Jason Najum 30:55 Mm. Yeah. I mean, yeah, so so all kinds of doors are opening for you, physically with your with your training, your personal life, the addiction's gone. Now now you're seeing you're seeing the real matrix code and everything. And and it also leads to a career change. Now you you're completely in on it. your business has moved down. So there's like so

Mr. Fungitarian 31:01 Yeah.

Jason Najum 31:20 It seems like you've been highly successful. You've made this shift. I wonder like if there's a moment I thought I had, because I was I was looking at you and you you seem to make this whole life shift and it's great. And it it how do we balance like you I guess you were high you were very high achieving before and now you're high achieving in a positive way. what's this like is there like a balance we have to to to strike between like being high achieving and in a subject like psychedelics. I always wonder, I mean, I'm working the psychedelics media, so I'm I'm in this I'm in the same boat, right? Like psychedelics teach us like, you know, humility and our ego and, you know, to take it easy and then and then yet we're trying to excel now down these new avenues. Is that is that like a is it like a weird paradox we got a balance between the humility that psychedelics brings us and then we try to build our lives around it. And how how do we find that find balance?

Mr. Fungitarian 31:52 Yeah. Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 32:14 Yeah, how how how to find that balance. And I and I think it's continual use of the psychedelic. I believe that there's stages and phases when you begin into it because it's so new new and all this new information comes in, your perception is different, your view in the world a little you're more empathetic and it's more impactful every time you're doing it. And but as this goes on, you know, I mean, this has been nine years doing this, you know, and so eight years, whatever, It's you just really You really just get to the point where

Mr. Fungitarian 32:55 It it's like a you know, man, I it's a really good question because I go back and forth on this all the time because I also am a like when I I just say like when this did happen and I did commit to it fully, you know, I I stopped taking everything. I I committed to just the mushroom. And it was

Jason Najum 33:00 Mm. Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 33:22 You know, that commitment to becoming my highest self and reading every day and, you know, maximizing my humility and being humble and not giving a fuck what I wore. And I had a beard down to here. And, you know, I just didn't care. I was growing mushrooms every day. Nothing else mattered except trying to save the world with mushrooms. And, you know, I have and I lost my old personality. I lost that old.

Jason Najum 33:37 Yeah.

Jason Najum 33:43 Nice.

Mr. Fungitarian 33:53 Gym I

Jason Najum 33:53 In what ways? And what what how how do you think it's done? Because you're you're still ambitious, you were still moving, you're you're still trying to do stuff. What it what what do you think what do you think you left behind?

Mr. Fungitarian 33:58 Ye yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 34:04 Greed, gluttony, lust, a a a different sense for how I even operated within business, how I operated within transactions with people and customers. It had nothing to do with making money. It had to just do with being able to grow really, really good mushrooms and give people the best product possible. So

Jason Najum 34:23 That's good. Yeah, let's let's focus there. Like that that that's a that's a great answer and that's a great shift to to notice. I mean, a focus on on that higher purpose, on the person, on the interaction, on the product, on on the on the on the mission, rather than like the lower level desires, I guess. Like that you're you're you were purposeful.

Mr. Fungitarian 34:36 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 34:42 Yeah. But I get what you're saying though, with like the culture thing of like, yeah, well mushrooms and psychedelics were all supposed to like ease it down now and everything's supposed to be like free flowing and it like, you know, yeah.

Jason Najum 34:54 Not necessarily. You know, we have we we it's it's just a thing to keep in mind. It's a great it's just like a nice thought to keep us grounded, you know. It's kind of like th this conversation I have sometimes about like Buddhism versus non-buddhist. I I've done some studying and in mindfulness and I've talked to some buddies who are, you know, not necessarily from that frame of mind. And and I had this interesting some someone was kind of like doing the devil's advocate against Buddhism. They're like, you know, it kind of makes you unambitious. It makes you, you know, it's too passive. And then I had this thought. I'm like, the Dalai Lama seems like a pretty ambitious fellow. He's out there, 90 years old, around the world touring. I think he's I think he's got more ambition than I do. And pretty active, productive fellow. And but his his purpose and his mission

Mr. Fungitarian 35:25 Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 35:43 Yeah.

Jason Najum 35:48 So the is there is that the is that the balance we can find when is it is it okay, you know, if we're if we're preaching the gospel, is it okay to to be ambitious as long as what if if our mission is pure?

Mr. Fungitarian 36:05 Yeah, my answer is yes, because I realized why I got brought into this, and that's because of my ambition and my desire. I am not the average mushroom person. I am not in the same category of any of my friends who are also top level experts, chemists, analytical, top-notch mushroom people, but they can't do what I do. They can't articulate themselves. They can't be able to do business. They can't not that they can't, just that's not the MO for most mushroom farmers or people. Like I'll just be honest. You know? So I knew back then because I I kind of went recluse. I got off of s social media. I didn't have social media for five years once this happened. And I, you know, and I was a influencer then, you know, fitness and all this stuff. And

Jason Najum 36:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 37:00 Getting out of that and just removing myself from that world allowed me to create the new version of myself and which was more humble and honest and truthful and pure and intent. And all of that was great. But once the journey went a little farther, I had to step back into how to do business at a high level.

Jason Najum 37:26 I mean you don't have to lose so all that's great. So like just y you mentioned all that, right? You you were more humble and you were more grounded and all those things happen, but it doesn't mean you have to lose like part of you, which is, you know, ambitious and an extrovert and and whatever whatever qualities you did have, like, yeah, y we we we can still be those with the lessons the lessons from our from our from our journey. Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 37:39 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 37:45 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 37:50 Y yeah, and I I just kind of felt that though I I shouldn't. You know, so there was also that that like battle, like, nah man you

Jason Najum 37:57 Were you scared of were you scared of the desire?

Mr. Fungitarian 38:01 Yeah. Yeah. Well I I got really big into just where my my mental state was because you know I am you know I've been addicted to all sorts of different things. And so for my mentality, I I like to keep things regimen or isolated and not be around things so that I don't do bad things, you know.

Jason Najum 38:15 Mm-hmm.

Jason Najum 38:29 So let's dive, let's dive fully into the mushrooms so you don't relapse back to anything else.

Mr. Fungitarian 38:31 Yeah. Right. Right. And so that was

Mr. Fungitarian 38:37 That was that was really it, man. It was I knew as long as I had the mushrooms, I wouldn't turn back to anything else. But I also I I just felt that that wasn't my purpose. That wasn't the point. I felt like I've made my money from my body and my looks for so long that I didn't want that anymore. I wanted to make, you know, a living from my mind. And just for other people to Yeah. Just for other people to know, man. Like I honestly I didn't read a whole book till I was twenty eight years old. You know? I didn't I didn't do learning.

Jason Najum 39:03 Mm. Your heart your heart.

Mr. Fungitarian 39:13 I did training, you know, I was all hands-on experience. And like the moment that I learned how to read, write, you know, really read well, it's just catapulted my whole entire life, you know. and from from literally reading and understanding this, it it also broke me into the universal principles and laws of, you know.

Jason Najum 39:27 Uh-huh.

Mr. Fungitarian 39:41 The world and how it operates. if you've ever read of like the Hermetic Principles or Think and Grow Rich or any of these books that kind of go into this stuff. And so, you know, I'm, you know, five, six hundred self-help books done now. Like, you know, I've read them all, studied everything, meditated. I've I've done it all in in that aspect. And it's when you know all of this stuff, you think sometimes that.

Jason Najum 39:48 Mm. Little bit.

Mr. Fungitarian 40:10 I I think sometimes that the I was thinking that the old personality

Mr. Fungitarian 40:17 Didn't need to come out because that's what drove me to the opiates in the first place. But in all reality, that was truly authentically me. I just got sucked into the opiates. And so it was relearning how to make a new new version of myself that was a hybrid between the mushroom hippie and the fitness bro that I used to be. Yeah.

Jason Najum 40:22 Mm-hmm.

Jason Najum 40:27 Mm-hmm.

Jason Najum 40:39 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean it's I often like to describe it as a it's like a a a fr mm the original, the the intended version of you. That's some and sometimes we get taken off our path. And maybe you got you got taken off your path with a addiction and a substance. Personally I got taken off my path with like overthinking and some anxiety and just like, you know, some

Mr. Fungitarian 40:51 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 41:04 Mm.

Jason Najum 41:06 Just like these weird filters of of mind that get in the way and other people get other things like and and improving your mental health however you do it, with psychedelics or without or with other therapies, I think it'll just allows you to like reveal like a the original you that that it gets buried in all the garbage that the years pour on.

Mr. Fungitarian 41:24 Yeah. Yeah. And I I think it's like it's it's the real you and I a lot of people tie it back to your childhood self, but my childhood self didn't go through all the things I went through at that point in life. And so I couldn't have been that child. I just was not being authentically myself that was still in there. And so finally that came back out and I got to be all of me rather than a period of me.

Jason Najum 41:52 Yeah. Evolution, baby. All right. yeah, I I really appreciate this conversation and and you know, for opening opening yourself up and and telling telling your story. And it's I mean you're doing great you're doing great things now. you're bringing positive things, healthy things to the world. You're using your energy to spread the spread the good word.

Mr. Fungitarian 41:55 All day. Yeah.

Jason Najum 42:22 of mycelium in all his various forms. And I guess you've also helped people start their own journeys with mushrooms and and different types. So yeah maybe maybe maybe just like close up the chat. I mean time was flying and then maybe close up the chat with yeah how you how you feel now what's the what's the path ahead what are you working on however you like to to close it up

Mr. Fungitarian 42:47 Yeah, absolutely. So right now I just launched my supplement company, Forgotten, which is a line of the first liposomal mushroom tinctures and gummies, as well as the first lion's mane syrup that is at a seven hundred and seventy seven milligram dose using both fruiting body and mycelium extract in a liposomal delivery. And so these are non psychoactive.

Jason Najum 43:12 Sorry, these are these non psychoactive? Are they medicinal or okay.

Mr. Fungitarian 43:16 Yeah, these are medicinal mushrooms, Reishi, Lion's Mane, and Cordyceps. so I just launched that supplement line about a month ago, and we are trying to elevate the mushroom space with a product that is lab tested at a dose that works, extracted the right way, and can actually be absorbed in a manner that actually works within the body and at the same time have it taste good. Most mushroom products taste terrible.

Jason Najum 43:44 Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's always an issue.

Mr. Fungitarian 43:45 So I fixed that. Took me a year and a half to formulate nine months to formulate a gummy. So I I have now put everything I've had into making sure that this line is the absolute best and most premium functional mushrooms you can get, and really trying to build a movement and a culture around people who want to know what goes into their body.

Jason Najum 43:52 Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 44:11 Who want to know the people that made their product? I know everybody in my supply chain, I know my farmers, I know everything that is happening, and the people who make it give a shit. And my belief is from growing so many mushrooms is that intent matters. And that intent behind that product carries into it, which carries into you. And so I'm trying to give people an elevated experience instead of just taking a supplement, it's now a ritual.

Jason Najum 44:38 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And yeah, go ahead. K keep going if you like.

Mr. Fungitarian 44:42 So I yeah. Yeah, so so with that we we were beginning to launch it around the country, gonna be on TikTok and Amazon going online and then if you want anything, it's forgotten.life. but we can put it up in the show notes. And I went with Forgotten, it's actually Forgotten Pharmacy on Instagram. I think you can tie into Forgotten Pharmacy because I believe that Mushrooms as a whole have been forgotten. And but I've come to the realization that sometimes things need to be forgotten in order to be remembered. And that's why they're having such a big moment right now. And so I want to bring that remembering to people with true authentic products and supplements because then that ties into what I am doing next, which I am coaching Micro Discipline, which is my micro-dosing course course that teaches people how to prepare the vessel ahead of time before the mushrooms.

Jason Najum 45:15 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 45:39 And how to integrate during, not just after. Because I have used my coaching principles of getting somebody healthy and tied it into micro-dosing and how you can plan out and prepare yourself to get into a state that it's going to allow substantial change into your life, even if it's micro and getting your bed done in the morning time. Whatever. And so

Jason Najum 46:00 Mm-hmm.

Jason Najum 46:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 46:05 We've been creating this community on Skool where we've been having people come in each month and doing it in a cohort sense, where we can allow everybody to share their experience. Because I believe the only way that we're gonna get this out is if we can get individuals to share their real world experience about what has happened to them so that we can take the woo-woo and the the is this happening out of it? Because if we have enough people saying it, it will allow other people getting into this to feel more comfortable. From a wide base and a wide range of different demographics, age, race doesn't matter. This helps people. And so I'm on a mission to do that and hopefully do 100,000 programs out to people this year who want to microdose and speak the language of microdosing. And from

Jason Najum 46:37 Mm.

Jason Najum 46:41 Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Najum 46:54 Mm-hmm. And do it intentionally, with preparation, all that. To do it right. Not just

Mr. Fungitarian 46:59 With prep preparation and community, you know. My my biggest thing, man, is I've I've been working in the psychedelic space. I host ceremonies here in Chicago, every quarter. And I've been working with people for years, and you know, I I'm telling you, man, it's not the mushroom. The mushroom shows you the power that you have. The mushroom doesn't give you the power. And if you don't go into the mushroom with good habits, they're not gonna give you good fucking habits. They're not gonna make you go to the gym.

Jason Najum 47:25 Mm-hmm.

Mr. Fungitarian 47:27 You know, maybe they'll inspire something, but like you still need to have their tool. That's it, man.

Jason Najum 47:31 You know, they're tool. They're just a tool. They're just a tool. And we have to we have to prepare and we have to integrate and we have to talk about it. And community, yeah, it's good that you add that. I mean, that's pr you have to give permission, you have to give you have to make people feel comfortable. All those things you mentioned, that's one of the reasons we're here, even at this this human journeys podcast, is not just to just do something different, but it's also to like give people permission to that's why I I wanna le these stories are not even like we didn't talk about your trip. the that we w we talked about you and where you're coming from so that someone sees this, can feel comfortable and have a door open that maybe they can go down this path as well. And and seems like you're doing some of that too.

Mr. Fungitarian 47:59 Right. Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 48:12 Agreed, yeah. That's I mean, that's the whole point I do this, man. You know, it's because I know if I'm vulnerable enough to share that others will too. And so creating that sense of community and that sense of of grouping has been wonderful. It's been like three months in and we're gonna begin to start educating and teaching on microdosing other other substances, other natural medicines as well, cactus, Amanita, different things of of that manner and see how these medicines can

Jason Najum 48:37 Right.

Mr. Fungitarian 48:41 Work in comp complementary to each other. so that's been my big focus in working with people directly and then obviously, you know, educating people on Instagram and the internet about all the top mushroom news and everything else that's going on in this industry so we can kind of get a clear-cut idea because I have no merit or I have no I just want the truth, bro. I just want people to understand this and speak the language. And I'm just trying to get people to get to that just to get to that next level of understanding because they've been so brainwashed and under hypnosis for so long that I I know that it's an uphill battle, but I've never seen such big push in the last three months as I have. And me and my team here in Chicago are working on

Jason Najum 49:18 Hmm. Mm.

Mr. Fungitarian 49:35 with Decriminalize Nature to hopefully dec decriminalize. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we just took over the Chicago area and we're gonna be pushing really hard over the next six months to bring decriminalization of entheogenic plants here in Chicago and push the bill forward because we just our governor did push psilocybin assisted therapy for veterans through as an actual bill. Yeah. So

Jason Najum 49:58 Yes. They're great. They've done good work. Yeah, they've done good work.

Jason Najum 50:01 Great. Okay. So you got you got some hope there. Yeah, they did good work in a bunch of American cities from what I remember. They did Detroit. They did it they did a lot of movements. Yeah. Yeah.

Mr. Fungitarian 50:07 Yeah, they they did a whole bunch. So yeah, man, I'm I'm really excited for that.

Jason Najum 50:12 All right, man, you're are they doing the good work?

Mr. Fungitarian 50:16 Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Jason Najum 50:17 I really appreciate I really appreciate it. And yeah, you're you're we're part of the conversation, these conversations, your work, your Instagram, your your your increasing access by giving permission and by like keeping your heart open. Good stuff, man.

Mr. Fungitarian 50:34 Every day, brother. Thank you so much for having me. And it was such a wonderful time to talk to you.

Jason Najum 50:40 I appreciate it. And let's keep it up and we'll we'll post to all your work, we'll link to all your stuff and all the best. I'm I'm happy you're on this path.

Mr. Fungitarian 50:50 Thank you, sir. You as well.